Hi everybody. Welcome to our our new on this webinar webinar number four of the series. And we have some really talented people and interesting and diverse, skills interest and where they're working They hope we provide some interesting information, but it's all about stepping up to the plate. We're all involved in content. And what have we done? What can we do improve our teams, provide more value to a business, and even maybe we can even cover the bottom line. How can How can the the content department? The people writing the information? How could we even improve the ROI of a company which is so critical overall? So rather than me give a non clear, probably an inaccurate introduction to our to our people here, I asked them, maybe they could say a few words. So maybe sure. Could you just tell us about yourself first, please? Sure. I'm Sean Lewis. I'm a professor of technical communication. Information design Colorado. And, the research that I do is with information architecture, especially in large complex health care and government environments. And currently, I came to fully go through working with, of course, and information architecture. We're documenting software for video editing. Terrific. Thank you, Cheryl. Sarah, can you tell us about yourself, please? Sure. I'm the manager of self-service content at ShipStation. We're a SaaS application that integrates in an e commerce workflow to print labels and manage the shipping side of your e commerce business. I went to graduate school at Texas State in the MATC program, and sort of came up in Ship Station and was going to grad school at the same time and made myself a bit of a squeaky wheel about their documentation processes as I was learning all about them. And eventually, they just said, okay, great. Why don't you just do this? So that's what I'm doing now. That's how I came into the to this particular situation. Wonderful. And so it's one one of our our favorite customers. And and it's the truth. It's not another joke. Frank, over to you, my friend. Yeah. Hi. I'm Frank Miller. I am the president and principal consultant at a small consulting firm called Refine. We're based out of Denver, Colorado, and we specialize in the, structured content, structured content, space and and we're here as a, a collaborator with Plego. We've we've met Plego in the team at Lee go through our work in helping organizations move from, unstructured content to to structured and modern content delivery, ecosystems. Thanks a lot for that. For that notification. Let's cut that out. And this is gonna be chopped up. Right? We're not broadcasting live, so that's great. Is gonna be chopped up, but this part is staying here. So, okay. Frank, I don't know if you remember, but you and I had a conversation. We met through the the docs Slack team when I was evaluating different structured authoring tools. So it was right when I started my Polygo trial and Yeah. You were so kind to just offer me an hour of your time to talk about all of these concepts that I didn't understand because I'd never done any structured authoring up to that point. Yeah. And the conversation that how it ended up, kind of tipping the scales, very much in Polligo's favor and ended up going with Pligo very shortly after that conversation. It was super helpful. So thanks. Yeah. Great. It's great to see you again, again. And it sounds like things are going well. Made right now. Yeah. It was great. Yeah. Absolutely. Cool. Let's go back to the the recording. As you can all see, we've got quite a diverse set of people. It should make it very interesting. We have a professor. We have an expert managing documentation that's only provide services to that sector. I'm hoping it'll be an interesting, discussion in between us. It's a lovely combination. The first question, and we're really gonna step up our questions each time. Is, first of all, it's challenging COVID nineteen. We all understand that everyone's working remotely, indefinite time, we we don't quite know how it's gonna end. We might come back into it. It's everything's up in the everyone's lives are up in the, we're actually very fortunate and should acknowledge that we've all We're all talking about how to work in this environment, and work is something we're quite privileged, and I'm sure we're quite all very thankful to be working in this environment and dealing with that particular challenge. But the first question is, is how can we within this challenge and it'll be productive and a value to our own teams in our own work, writing writing our content. So, Sarah, do you have any thoughts on our one as And and as Rodix is, what are what are we doing? How are we doing it better? How can we? For sure. So at my company, we're having a bit of a renewed focus on self-service and I view self-service, not just as from the user perspective, but also internally from our employee perspective, because we my team does both user facing and internal documentation. So on the internal documentation side, how can we make our content more findable, more usable, so that the people on the front lines of sales and support agents are having better interactions with our users. So one of the things that we've done recently, but we started it in Q1 and just finished was we did a usability study, essentially. So using the principles of of usability research to find out where our internal documentation was failing our agents. And we we did some surveys. We did some round tables and discussions. And then we took all that information and essentially redesigned our internal agent documentation portal. And we've gotten really, really good feedback on that. So, I don't have data yet on interaction, user interactions, and whether that has decreased, you know, agent interaction times and stuff like that. But I'm hoping at the end of next quarter, I can pull some data on that. And the other is we are kind of experimenting with some other ways to help our users. So on the enterprise side, I thought so we have all this structured content, the legal. We're currently pushing it to our help desks, but what are ways that we can deliver this content that might be useful to our users. So I propose to our enterprise account managers that we can do an on demand user guide. So if you have a client, who needs a specific set of instructions, you know, they use these ten features, or they wanna understand how to make their process more efficient, instead of going to the help center and giving them ten or twelve links to different articles, we can just put all of that together in one. We can brand it, publish his PDF and send it directly to them. So we've done that. I'm on working on the fourth one right now. So far, the response has been really good. Definitely from the account managers because it's a little bit less work for them, but much more work for us. So now we have to kind of figure out, it's identifying a few places in our documentation where we haven't really optimized it for reuse yet. So now we have to go back and do a little bit of editing and and work on our strategy there. But those are the two things that we've been focusing on. So if I would summarize what you said into one word, I would summarize what is is thinking that you're actually taking the time to think how to improve things. And that's that's that's very interesting. I think it's quite impressive. A lot of stuff to learn from that, Frank, in terms of what writers are doing in in in this field to help themselves. I mean, that's interesting what chip stations doing with what you're doing, Sarah. And I think, you know, I I I can speak from I can speak from somewhat of a, you know, an outside perspective from from our customers, which which are technical communications, organizations, information development organizations, and how they're how they're dealing with it. And I think what what Sarah just described is is, an example of of of a a kind of a bigger trend that I'm seeing during during this shutdown and it's that These organizations are working on things. Oh my goodness. Sorry. Spam risk. Sorry guys. This is a chain and I have not set the, I've not set the, notifications up properly, I guess. Frank, I'm I'm meant to say the in the introduction. I'll I'll say enough to everybody that it's perfectly okay nowadays for children, for phones. Yeah. But for for people for people for people to walk in, I would just suggest a couple of things. One, if If you've got a flight, keep it out the room. And number two, if you wanna shout at your family, put the microphone off. Man, I was on a roll though. You know, that's the thing. Like, I was on a roll. And I don't have kids. I got my dog is taking a nap here. And, you know, I should be free to just, to just ramble. But, anyway, what I was gonna say is, and let's hope that doesn't happen again. What I was gonna say is that, you know, these these organizations are working on the things that they knew they needed to do. But that have been in in some sort of wish list, for for years sometimes. And and it's kind of what to what you said Steve taken a pause. Like things have slowed down. Whereas the, before it was all about releases and getting the docs out and and just you know, in in a lot of ways, chaos, of of of release time. Now, you know, things have slowed down a little bit. So people are doing things like studying their customers. I had one I had one customer tell me that, their their engineers because it's a manufacturing company the the lines are shut down for for about a month, but the engineers are still coming to work. The engineers suddenly have, a great interest in the doc, the documentation now. And and now have time to you know, so there's this relationship between between the the writers now and the the smeeze that that didn't have time to is blossom the right word to, you know, is is that is that an appropriate word? Didn't have time to to blossom or deepen. And so so the docs are getting more attention because the engineers are not frantically, you know, trying to to get designs out and things like that. And so, we're seeing a lot of, organizations just say, Hey, what what what did what do we know our ideal situation is? We've already kind of mapped this out. We had plans for this. We have time to do it now, and they're doing things like that, you know, whether it is is, deeper conversations with the the engineers or really understanding how customers are are interacting with the content and what they need and and and what what they want, how they want to self serve, you know, things like that. So, and the other thing that I'll that I'll say that that I've noticed is that you know, and I'm not speaking for the entire industry. I'm speaking for, you know, my slice of you know, my my lens of of my customers and and it does. It it spans multiple verticals and I think I've I've got a pretty good picture my company has a pretty good picture of what's going on. I haven't seen any I haven't seen any furloughs. I haven't seen any layoffs And I mean, I know they're happening. You know, we don't we don't have anybody currently in transportation. That that could be a place where where some of the economic pain is is hitting. But for for our customers, we see people that you know, but we've had kind of a common common theme in our conversations is, hey, I thought this was supposed to be a slowdown. Why is it so busy? You know, there so we've got we we do have, we do have a lot of people that have a lot of work to do. And I I'm heartened by that because I think what that means is that the content is really important. And and the content has to be there. It's a way we communicate. It's the way that we we communicate our products. We communicate our companies. And, and the people who are, you know, are are really immersed in in developing that and delivering that are essential. They're the essential workers of of a lot of companies that that we work with. So, and I've seen different times before where slowdowns happen and you know, fifteen years ago, I've I've seen where the the impacts were different. We did see we did see writers getting laid off when we saw riders that were deemed as non essential. And in in in my slice of of of the world, that's not how putting now in fact, they have more responsibility and and I think that's something that that, they're they're really sort of taking you know, taking and embracing and running with it and because we we've come that far in fifteen years to now say we are essential and and we don't have to make that, you know, don't have to make that case on a daily basis that what we do is essential is essential value to the business. So that's kind of what I'm seeing. I don't know if it actually answered your question, Steve, but, that's that's kind of how I see things in the last just this this six six weeks where the world turned up. Turned upside down. That's how that's how things are happening in in my my neck of the woods. Well, it's basically very interesting what is what you said. You essentially agreed with Sarah. The beginning, you you made me in terms of the engineers are throwing many more colitis. So you said, well, while everyone else is just wearing masks, the technical writers need to also purchase helmets in order to deal with all the comments that are coming in. But it's now very applicable to to move to Sean because it it used to it's very different fifteen, twenty years ago. Right? The writers in a little room in the corner, not even on the road map, right at right at the end of the end game for a product. Now as you say, people are beginning to recognize the importance of content. So let's get us thrown for for his thoughts because he's teaching people how to work in this industry. Right. And so, and so, of course, my industry is a little bit different. Our customers, we can call students customers, it's a little bit different. And I wanna agree with both Sarah and Frank about the importance of what is what has been discovered about the importance of content. So when we think about our enterprise, our institution, we've grown about doubled in the last ten or twelve years. And as a result of that, that growth, a lot of things we're forgotten about. What we've discovered in this in this chaos is that there were lots of processes, lots of procedures, lots of documentation in the institution in in our enterprise that just didn't happen. And so there's lots of questions as we were transitioning from regular school. To full online delivery, people just didn't know what to do. How do we manage this? How do we manage that? And those of us, I'm the head of a department those of us who are in the administrator of the management chain kept asking the upper management, how do we deal with this? What do we what do we do with x problem? And they're like, we don't know. We don't have a process for this. And, so that's been a that's been a really interesting experience where we've basically been building the ship of documentation from enterprise to Sarah's point internally as this has been happening. And so it's pointed out a lot of weaknesses and holes that we need to solve, at the institution. Also, in terms of, content delivery, when we think about us as faculty members, delivering content to our customer students, we've discovered how much more content and how much better the content needs to be when we're delivering instructional materials to students. I was in a conversation with yesterday with a junior faculty member, and she was very upset. She's like, I'm having to do all of these videos all this extra documentation, why don't the students just understand what we're doing? And and I and I said to her, Michelle, it's probably because you're not there. You're not there, and they can't just ask you a question in the classroom, and you can answer it in ninety seconds. Instead, your classes are asynchronous and so their students are accessing whenever wherever, and their questions are not being answered. So this is this is a similar question or similar point as we begin with what Sarah and Frank have saying is that there are these questions, these things that are happening internally, and we're generating documentation called instructional materials, and we realize that we weren't doing it as well as we should be doing it. We were just relying on interactions and and collaborations in the classroom and face to face. And that leads to my third point, which which is about collaboration itself. One of the beautiful things I think about this is shut down is slow down is that we've had to learn how to use things like agendas. We've had to plan our meetings. We have to be very very, intentional about engaging with others in a call. So if you've got a call that has fifteen or twenty people on it, which happens, It's not a great way to have a meeting, but it does happen. It's gonna be very intentional about how we're collaborating with others using these technologies. And so that's also generated a lot of materials that we're circulating now about how just how to do good online collaboration. And I'm hoping that that will then carry over into the future and for the future classes and the future collaborations where when we're back on campus and we're back face to face, people will remember that if we're intentional about our collaboration with pairing agendas, we come to our meetings, prepared that, you know, the that everything will run better. So so I wanna agree with with with with Frank and Sarah on content, but also add the idea about the improvement in terms of the quality of our collaboration because we had to be attention to that. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing for webinar that everybody's agreeing with each other. It would be nice if you all disagree a little bit and not a bit of an argument. At the same time, the message is actually coming out really clear. I mean, you've all basically said, we're talking about the thinking fulfilling the wish, the wish list. And you just added the improved planning. I mean, if we stopped here, there's big lessons that people can take out from what you've said. Now my second question, I think you've all kind of dealt with. I'm not sure if Frank did maybe, and where we can expand on a little bit. Is so how and now we've now we've basically agreed altogether that the writing departments are so much more significant than they used to be. People are looking towards the writing department. What can we do now in this situation to look outwards? Sarah did touch on it before. But how can we look outwards in terms of okay. What can we provide to other other parts of the business? How can the content help? Not even the state let's say departments? Processes, operations. You know, what can we do? Take advantage of this new stardom so to speak and and move it in the company. Frank, do you have any thoughts? Yeah. You know, I think it's, it's probably a good time to to really prove out and and show the goods when it comes to a lot of the things we've been we've been talking about for, you know, going on a couple decades now around, around single sourcing and around, around scale and automation that can be achieved with content operations. And you know, now's now's a really good time to show that if companies, you know, need need content that is, you know, delivered to customers, but also to in internal organizations, you know, if content needs to be shared, if, you know, we're not we're not throwing headcount at at problems anymore when it comes to to, to content. You know, that that was that's usually the the answer when when when you can't scale or automate content. Because for whatever reason, you know, you people are doing things differently and and there's no standard in place and you know, every writer is doing idiosyncratic work. You can't scale that. You have the way that you you get you get more content out is you you add head count. That's not happening. Maybe in some maybe for some companies that traditionally do that, they'll throw throw some heads at it. They'll be hiring. But the in the real world, companies that can't do that have to rely on on good standards, good structure, good reuse mechanisms, and and the good the technology that supports that, you know, the systems that that support their content strategy that they're all about productivity scale efficiency and and being able to to get that the content, the good content that's being created, amplify that out to two different corners of the of the enterprise. And also to the customers. So I think this is a good test for that. And we've been working on all those things for for so long now and and have have shown successes in different, you know, in different, areas, but I think this is really one that has to be. It's sort of existential. To be able to to reuse content in a in a smart way to scale our our our content operations, in a way that that is is lean and that is effective and and here's here's the test. So that's what I would say and and that goes to some of the wish list that people are working on. Some of it's wish list, but some of it is, you know, we must now do more with less because we're not we're not hiring anybody for the foreseeable future. So how do we how do we get the most out of what we've already got in place here? How do we scale that? So that's what I would that's kind of what I say to that, if that's what you were getting at, Steve. Yeah. I mean, what you can feel from this meeting, I think is, it's a lot of positivity. You know, all of us are covered with positive vibes and opportunities. If I can hand this question to Sean, but when you answer, don't just answer in terms of your organization? Maybe what students can get out of this? Is is this a good time for students to come in to the to the industry because when they when they come in to help themselves or other departments, is it is it an opportunity for them as well? It's an interesting question. So let me let me take that in two parts first is quickly to answer the first part of the question is looking outward, what can we offer. And I think there's a focus on users audiences that we didn't have before because we're dealing with a lot more technology. And then the second is about what technologies are good for what. And so, for example, in my in my institution, my faculty have been really they've been leaned on by many other people because we understand how you or media work to to present different messages of different audiences. And so there have been a lot of faculty who've been relying on my people as technical communicator help them understand. Okay. So I've got this information probably delivered in a chemistry lab. Now how do I take this problem and use these technologies to deliver the information about that problem in my class. And so there's an emphasis on users. I think that is important and then also what media are good for what and what media you can't use for what. So I think that's one first part of the answer. The second part about what's good for students is that they're seeing that a lot of what we talk about in our classes is real. So for example, we spend a lot of time in our classes saying you will collaborate, and you probably will collaborate online. And if you are a technical communicator, there's a high probability that you might be a sole a sole employee in an organization where, virtually, from Austin, Texas, from your company is identical. You're like, no. No. That's not happen. You're just a professor. You don't know anything. And and so there's a certain amount of reality in this situation where have worked a lot of technical communicators would do. And so there's there's been that. The other, I think, advantage for students is it's helping them actually communicate them. Because whenever we work online, we have to rewrite more type more, right, because a lot of the messages occurred through typing. And then the students are learning how, again, this comes back to my earlier point, about just how to collaborate better in terms of working with different groups and organizing different types of technologies using Google docs and word in Polygo and Zoom and group chats to get their work done. And and so they're being much more they're being students are, I think, being more, intentional. I'd like to use that word again about how they're working with all different technologies because in my classes, for example, I teach mostly, upper division graduate students as well. And what we tell the students is that you have to be adaptable to technology. We actually have a class in our undergraduate curriculum called technological adaptability. And the whole purpose of that class, even about using Microsoft Word or using a legal or, Adobe after that, it's about there's all these different technologies, and you're just gonna have to figure it out. And you're gonna get thrown into a situation where you have to create documentation on something you're just gonna have to go in and learn. And, oh, by the way, you might be given a tool like the legal because your organization just said that using this tool And so you'll have to learn the tool at the same time you're learning about the project or the process that you're documenting. So It's a very real kind of a scenario right now. It's happening. And so in my class, for example, they're documenting some video editing software. We were going something different with a large DOD contractor that that didn't work out, because they closed down. This was documenting this software, and we were, and Galingo is a new tool for us. So the students were in my class. These are advanced undergraduate students getting ready to graduate. Here's your tool called Bellego, learn how to do structured authoring, and here's the software that you don't know how to use, do both. That's what happened in my class. And so I think the the the shutdown in COVID nineteen has been beneficial to help students understand. And how the world really works. He doesn't tell them how the world works, but they don't believe so it actually helps. I I have to say that that really speaks to my soul because that's exactly what me and my team went through when we started using Polygo because we were all new to structured offering and all new to Pollagos. We were doing that simultaneously while trying like strategize exactly ship station self-service content, within all of that. So, if they need confirmation that is real. It is real. I definitely heard a copy of the video now, Steve. It's it it's it's it's a brilliant point because even when I was thinking about what to speak about here and ask, I didn't realize the ramifications for students in a very positive way that that that that they can learn from. I mean, so I would rather than ask you the question I was asking because you basically answered it before when you first spoke in terms of way of providing value to other people. Have have you like taken by what Sean has done. Have you have you learned new things in your within yourselves of how to work? Not just that, that, that stopped to thinking about how can we improve things, but just working together as a team. Is is this the, has it done anything for you in that way? Sure. I mean, going back to what Frank was saying about, and Sean, I guess, about being more intentional and you know, creating agendas and, being very targeted in your communications strategy. I when I came into this particular role, I was a a new manager. I didn't I hadn't had a lot of people management experience prior to this. So I was kind of flailing about a little bit and trying to do a more, I guess, cooperative style. And that worked to a degree, but now I feel like that is even more important, but I do still, you know, have to delegate certain things. So, for example, in that project that we did redesigning our internal, documentation, one of the guys on my team, he also is part came out of the MATTC program, but he had experience doing usability research. So I said, I want you to design me a study, so that we can do use those principles, on this internal content. So he he designed the study. He wrote a proposal he planned basically the phases of the project. And then, whenever we were actually doing the interactions with the with the users, we kind of shared we shared the mic, so to speak. So it was collaborative in that way, but he took the lead in that project, and it turned out really, really well. You know, now he and I are gonna collaborate on, I guess, kind of writing up what our results were so that we can maybe expand that, to other teams that, I don't know how many of you use confluence, but we use confluence for internal documentation. But, you know, we are not we're still a fairly young company. I mean, when we're eight years old, we haven't been using confluence that young, that long, only a couple of years. And nobody developed any type of, like, standard operating procedures for confluence. So it's a bit like the wild west in there except for the space that we designed, which is amazing, so now we're gonna take what we have learned through this study, and hopefully build a framework that other teams can use to have better documentation for their teams as well. So it's it's definitely, encouraged this more cooperative style, that I was hoping to cultivate. But it also highlighted a need for me to take a little bit more charge and and delegate appropriately. I identify people's strengths and play to them. And I think that worked really well in this particular case. That that's really clever as well because you've you've used your initiative to to to to to start new ideas out and applying them to the right kind of people. Basically, take you make you're doing the synergy of one plus one equals three with how you're doing that. That's really quite impressive. I'd like now to ask my third question. Let's see if we can try to answer within a a couple of minutes. So there's not I don't this is so good. I don't want it to cut much out. Right. So if we can answer this last time, we're quite quite quite like two or three minutes or less, it'd be very good. If there if there are answers up to now, this has been amazing. Is can we actually affect the ROI or even profitability of a of a company? By the types of changes we're talking about now in in in, you know, as a rocket fire from com for for content to start them, in effect in the bottom line of a company. Sean, do you wanna have first, first shot on that one? Yes. Yes. It's the answer we can improve the ROI. We've we've seen that in our organization where better content in terms of instructional content will help retain the students. Will help drive student success. And so the better our content is we're delivering instructional materials in the classroom and through virtual means. The better our student outcomes will be, the better our retention will be, the better our recruiting will be. So it's a for us, yes, absolutely in that space of of educational content, delivering educational content. The other is in terms of enterprise content, we can operate more efficiently and more effectively because we're not running around trying to answer questions or should have been answered with a standard operating procedure or a process. And that helps a lot of people do their do their work better, and it helps eliminate a lot of redundancy. Or ambiguity in processes when those processes should have been articulated in advance of a crisis outbreak. Loving it. Very, very interesting and very positive. Frank. Yeah. So I'll try I'll try to keep it keep it quick. I think the the, the most obvious for for content creators is, form of ROI would be e learning. So if if that's something that's in your on your wish list in your backlog, to deliver that and and either use that as a a brand builder or use that for revenue. That is something that immediately is going to is gonna pay off. I know a lot of organizations work on that. They might collaborate with with the the learning and training organizations to to share content and to to deliver that out. Now is the time to do it. If if that was something that you had, you know, had some ambitions around. That's ROI. The other ROI, is a little bit harder to measure. But I do think it it is measurable. It's it's stuff like that, you know, customer sat scores that, that you can take, but also there's internal metrics. You can help a support agent, answer a question more quickly and help them, you know, help them get on to the next customer and and and keep that keep that machine running efficiently and and effectively, then you're you're creating indirect ROI. If you can help the marketing folks, you know, with with some of your content or with some of your processes or with some your some of your infrastructure. That is that's leading to brand building. That's leading to sales. And and defining that is a little bit tougher. Than than than direct revenue, but it's it's not impossible. And and and organization should be doing that anyway. Again, now's the time to to really focus on that and and really make that make that real and not just something that sits in a backlog or a wish list. I thought that was really clear, especially how you brought how companies can actually quantify, the success they might get from the content. Sarah, do you have any thoughts? Mostly, mostly I just want a second what Frank said. That's all exactly right. So training also falls within my team. I've got a couple trainers. And one of the things that I hope to do at our company is foster, like, a knowledge, a knowledge culture, that people want to learn, you know, so we've done that really successfully internally by, instituting a new LMS, and we're taking what we've learned there into a user education initiative. So it's great to have public, documentation and how to's and, and whatnot, but we don't really have a user training program and that's what the training side of my team is working on right now. And, again, kinda going back to the usability research, like finding out what your users need. So what what do my agents need to learn? What do my users need to learn? Are there opportunities for these two things to, jive together or are they totally separate because of of the audience the different audience needs? So that's an issue that we're also working on to hopefully and, to I don't remember if it was Sean or Frank that said that, but the ability to potentially even monetize some of some of the training going there's lots of companies that do that. They provide maybe like a little free, some free webinars or some free one on one classes. And then if you want to get more in-depth, then, you know, you buys a learning subscription for your company. And in e commerce, there's there is a lot of seasonal work, especially when the holidays come around and then you know, warehouse needs to train their shipping staff. So, you know, come August, you buy a subscription and you train all of your new staff, And that way, we're actually doing the training, and we're making sure that there's a good quality there. And then the, the admins or or the warehouse manager isn't spending his time training and new staff. So it actually frees them up. And that and that creates, I guess that would make the app more sticky and people less likely to churn because they see all this additional value, and it's freed up all this additional time on their side. So, you know, that's two sides of that e learning, coin, I guess you could say. I think it's really infra first of all, look at your expression, foster, fostering a knowledge culture. That that that's a beautiful title. I really I really like that. We we we I think three of you have been absolutely unbelievable. We've we've we've the positive activity. I can't believe there's been a better webinar or a more positive webinar for the whole of this period anywhere in the world. I think you've all all come up with some fantastic ideas but shown, I think, two very important parts that need to work together in content. The tech the technical and the business acumen. All three of you have spoken about both and how they, how they work together. And I think I think that's that's how it has to be. You can't do one without the other, and you all have that business feel to what you're talking about. So we can so hopefully people have understood how you can take the content side that really you to be a kind of negative or in the, at the back door, as I said before. But now it's out there. It's it's got it's shining. It's got stars coming out of it. It's got bells and whistles as as as an organization can benefit and the CEO can see the bottom line. Increasing from well planned. It's not just about written content. It's about planning it well, organizing it well, putting it in the right place, getting it to the right people. When that's done, it provides fantastic value to everybody. Thank you everybody. That was absolutely fantastic. It was inspiring. It was interesting. I'm sure there's another I word I could find as well. Inspirational. It was a really terrific session. Thank you all of you for putting your time in, your efforts, thinking, and, and contributing some of the really positivity ideas you've had maybe we can get together again in the future, all of us for another one. I think this group is absolutely fantastic. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. It's pleasure. Okay.